As the world and nation are feeling the tightening grip of reality with a global financial meltdown and attempts to recover from eight years of ineptitude in the White House, the conservative wing of the Republican party appear to be doing some really good drugs. For their failures in the last few elections they point the finger outward. They bastardize and skew interpretation of American Revolutionary history. And of course, mouthpieces Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter make obligatory appearances, spewing hatred and insanity.
Let’s go Rethugulans continue down the path of the Dodo bird and extinct yourselves. The moniker the Daily Show tags onto the meeting is priceless, ‘Two And A Half Men’. Watch for it.
Republicans make their move at the CPAC, and Harold Varmus talks about funding for diseases.
The Dems and irresponsible idiots buying shit they couldn’t afford here in the US caused the recession we’re diving into. Oboma just going to make it worse now, just watch. We’ll see you have a job in the next 6 months.
Can you show 1 example of a Democrat buying stuff we can’t afford? And, can you show how doing so caused the recession? What I can show you is volumes of information regarding the Bush administrations wasteful spending on unwinnable wars, and I also have evidence that the administration just took our money for themselves. How can you blame Obama’s administration when this recession was going on long before the election?
You cant even spell the president name correctly,
you are a walking talking stereotype proving
the blogs validity.
Wait, wasn’t Bush the one who got on TV after 9/11 and told people the best way that they could help the US is to go out and spend money? Wasn’t Bush the guy who spent money the US didn’t have on a war in Iraq with no clear ending planned?
That doesn’t justify Obama spending even more money. They’re both wrong.
What makes people think that if one corrupt politician spends too much money (Bush), another corrupt politician (Obama) can spend even more money?
I hear politicians arguing this way all the time, it’s illogical.
So while you believe Bush was wrong in spending money, its okay for Obama to spend money because Bush did it?
Obviously a lot Conservatives have never heard of economic theory other than supply-side economics (tax cuts).
(Supply-side economics only works when the economy is strong or in mild recession but not a severe
recession such as we are encountering today)
Wikipedia:
The solution to a depression is to stimulate the economy (“inducement to invest”) through some combination of two
approaches: a reduction in interest rates, and government investment in infrastructure. Investment by government
injects income, which results in more spending in the general economy, which in turn stimulates more production
and investment involving still more income and spending and so forth. The initial stimulation starts a cascade of
events, whose total increase in economic activity is a multiple of the original investment.
Are you serious? A Wikipedia solution?
How about the Federal government stops reckless spending? Have you ever heard of something called inflation?
We learned from the Great Depression that attempts to “inject income” into the system not only failed to fix things but also made things worse. Government injecting money into the system did not solve that problem and it won’t solve this problem.
Democrats and Republicans alike need to get a clue.
I agree, the government should always avoid reckless spending. The Gulf War and the War in Iraq are perfect examples of spending that we should have avoided.
I have to disagree with you on a couple of points though. Wikipedia may not always be correct, but it is fallacious to assume that all information on there is incorrect. In point of fact, the information on recessions is quite accurate. Your information on resolution of the Great Depression is, however, incomplete. While on the surface it might seem that given the timeline of events, the injections that occurred created more problems. However, when you delve deeper you will see that it was the delay in response initially that caused the recession to turn into a depression. Thus, John Maynard Keynes, a British economist, proposed interventionist government policy.
It’s important to understand that these policies do not prevent recession, and they do very little to even help to recover. However, injecting money in infrastructure helps moderate the recession, and it can help speed recovery. This theory has proven accurate on multiple recessions, including every one in the last 30 years. Reagan, despite his misgivings, was forced to invest in infrastructure in 82 and 87 to minimize the impact.
The problem in the US is NOT big government, it’s big business. The Republican Party has become so disconnected from the majority of the country. Instead of realizing the true problem, which is that corporate greed has been allowed free reign over the last 8 years, and it is finally catching up with everyone. We are transitioning to an aristocracy, and we face the same perils that many countries have faced. It is incumbent on American’s to realize that they have been sold a bad bill of goods – quite literally. If you want to see where the US is headed (unless we change direction soon) look at countries like Brazil, China, and Mexico. While these countries are making great strides to improve the situation, the level of poverty is still high – hence the volume of immigration to the US. The American dream, which is what appeals to so many, is based on the idea that everyone can have a moderately good life. While no one will disagree that capitalism is the basis for success, it is the government’s job to ensure a balance is maintained.
In the United States, we need to realize that almost no company is truly looking out for your individual interest. Most business leaders subscribe to Rand’s objectivist theories, and focus exclusively on their well-being – which is derived largely from profits. If you think I’m wrong, try investigating the recent daylight’s savings time change. This minority of people have had unbridled ability to modify the government for their own “rational self-interests”. As American’s we need to “take back our country” from these gluttonous and blasphemous pigs. By the way, if you truly believe the conservatives support “Christian values”, ask yourself why so many are resistant to any policy which does anything other than put more money in their own pockets – hence their preference for supply-side economics. They will use every means possible to convince the gullible and naïve portion of the population to support their cause. Keep in mind that 50% of the population is above average, the other half is not. I liken this to herding bison over a cliff. Have you taken the time to really ask yourself if what you profess to believe in is really in your best interest? The majority of American’s suffer to corporate-driven consumerism, and they swallow this poison pill with a smile because they are told it’s what’s good for them.
While some may hold to the belief that the government is just as bad, this is again a partial fallacy. We need to be more discerning in our selection of representatives and elected officials to ensure that we do not end up swinging in the opposite direction. The internet makes it easier to get information on candidates and expose their real interests. Thus it is our responsibility to go and find this information beforehand, and base our selection solely on who we feel is best qualified. In fact, I believe we should abolish the political parties completely. They provide a conflict of interest which is quite evident in the current political arena. Also, we should outlaw lobbying and force representatives to only speak to their constituents. Also, representatives should be required to meet with a percentage of their constituents on a regular basis. Next, we need to impose term limits on all federal offices, and each state can choose to follow at their own discretion.
Given my years of economic and political research, I believe the United States has a decision to make right now. American’s must first take the time to look deeper, and see the real root of the economic problems. Let’s take back our country… From corporate greed, and self-serving individuals who prey on others.
You assume a lot after reading my short comment.
Yes, big business has been and is a very big problem. Now Big Government is going to make things even worse.
I guess I should mention that I’m not affiliated with either of these despicable political parties. Both Republicans and Democrats are equal contributors to this mess.
You know how kids always pick on the people you like in the school yard? Me thinks a certain Mr. Obamonation is dreaming of doing unmentionable things to President Obama… The hair on the back of my neck is standing just thinking of the possiblities! \(^o^)/
How could the Dem have spent money they didnt have? Virtually all the spending was passed by a republican controlled congress and senate. Then passed by george bush. Out of the past four presidents (Regan,bush,Clinton,bush). Clinton was the only one too balance the budget by reducing spending. Bush was the first to propose an economic stimulus plan (not Obama). To think that republicans are fiscally conservative is a dated myth.
the repugs passed the largest public works bill — ever — when they controlled the exec and legislative branch in the Highways Act
wich gave Alaska alone 112 earmarks.
Bush blew over 11 trillion dollars by cutting taxes while spending in deficit,
not hard to comprehend more money going out, less coming in.
Bizarre, listening to liberals laugh there way into the sewer running through the grave they dig for the country.
bdoodle–the grave has already been dug by Repubs.
that would of course be the sewer the Republicans dug while they were in power? The one that threw the entire world into a recession and probably a depression any time soon. Republicans can say what they like about democrats or liberals, it just does not matter. They brought this mess on and now someone else has to deal with it. They sure as hell are not ready to deal with anything financial.
Just let the Republicans do their thing…. they can only make it worse.
They make themselves more irrelevant every day.
I abandoned that party during the Bush years.
The only people left are the ones who refuse to acknowledge that the factory is closed, the store is out of business, the car is broken down and sitting on blocks in the front yard, on and on.
I didn’t leave the Republican party – my party left me. The party of smaller government – nope – not in the last 8 years. The party of fiscal conservatism – nope – not in the last 8 years. The party that stayed out of my personal life and business life to run as I saw fit – wrong again. I blame the Democrats for rolling over and supporting Bush too – but it was Bush and the Republican agenda (who was in control for at least 6 of the last 8 years?) that’s put us here. A failed war, massive debt, a country that was once looked upon with respect and is now viewed with dismay. “Heck of a job Brownie”..
Obama and the Democrats will undoubtedly make their own mistakes. But the Republicans should shut up and enjoy the ride. They’ve lost all moral authority to complain.. Instead of whining why don’t they offer real alternatives? Oh, you say, how about those famous Republican tax cuts ?? – I own a business and a few hundred or even a few thousand dollars per worker is not going to make me hire more people. It never did, and especially not now. How about fixing health care costs – my company health care costs go up every year and all I can now do is pass them on to my employees – or give up profitability and go out of business. Taking that monkey off my business back would let me hire more employees.
The country arrived at this point by being stupid, greedy and lazy – being human – I think it’s called. Many Government laws exist for a reason. The Republicans removed the safety catches on the economic gun (thanks Phil Gramm) and we’ve shot ourselves in the foot – maybe the head if we don’t come to our senses. We need to suck it up and do the hard things. For me, and my generation *this* is as good as it gets. All I can do now is invest for the future – so my kids will have one. Yes, there is massive debt, yes – it will hurt to pay it off. But hey – it felt pretty good racking that debt up too, didn’t it? Taking the long view, as Obama is doing is the only sane approach to our problems. And the Republicans – if they want to continue to exist as a party should either lead, follow or get out of the way..
Conservatism will not disappear. It will hone its message and re-emerge.
There will always be a place in the world for authoritarian elitism.
Individuals will always have to fight for their rights. Sometimes we will be more successful than others. But there will be steps back.
The Dems and irresponsible idiots buying shit they couldn’t afford here in the US caused the recession we’re diving into. Oboma just going to make it worse now, just watch. We’ll see you have a job in the next 6 months..
Last 8 years, more like since Reagan the Republicans have stopped being the party of fiscal responsibility.
Libs complain that Bush spent a lot of money… Obama has just signed off on more spending in his first 40 days than Bush did in his entire 2 terms.
Libs say Obama inherited a recession. Well, guess who’s been in-charge of government spending for the past 2 years? Oh yeah, Democrats – and when did this recession start again? Oh-yeah, within the past 2 years. Amazing huh, how the libs in the media always skip that bit of info.
Libs say a “Failed War”. Which war would that be? Are you talking about Iraq? I can never be sure since you people don’t know how to express yourselves logically. Iraq would have been a failure if you had your way – but now it’s on Obama’s hands and it’s just killing you that he hasn’t pulled out immediately as he said he would during the campaign. The surge was a huge success, and you libs are in complete denial… but not to worry, you can just close your eyes and listen to MSNBC and live in your own little world.
Yes Republicans lost the past 2 elections, but the reason why (as they are finally figuring out) is because they were acting too much like Democrats. Thus, they couldn’t get enough of their own party to vote for them. Remember, Obama only won by about 3 or 4 percentage points, it was no landslide (take a look of the election map on Google on a county by county basis – it’s a major eye opener). If we had a true conservative Republican rather than McCain (which the liberal media loved McCain right up until after he was the nominee) then Obama wouldn’t be where he is at now. We will all have to pay the price, as will our children and possibly our Grandchildren, assuming Obama doesn’t bankrupt the entire country before his first term is up. Remember, the libs are already talking about yet another stimulus package. Somebody better stop Obama, Nancy, and Harry before they completely destroy what’s left of our economy.
Are you kidding me??
First of lets go back. Lets start with all the Repugs of our time.
Nixon: Crook (Say no more)
Ford: Confused (Say no more)
Reagan: Senile a good part of his second term
Bush 1: No new taxes (He was just joking)
Bush 2: Country in a MESS. This fool in FLA reading books to school kids on 9/11 didn’t he have something better he could of been doing.. Like running a country??
And you say that Obama said he would pull out of Iraq immediately when he got in office?? He never said that! But as normal Repugs listen to Rush Limbra who doesn’t know the Constitution from the DOI! Obama said he wanted combat troops out of Iraq within 16 months of taking office but would consult the Joint Chiefs and commanders in the field to set a firm date (Which he did)
Unlike Bush who said “Mission Accomplished” over 5 years ago, and then needed a surge (Which means the mission was not accomplished and still is not) and then the surge worked because of the Sunni Awakening (And money we paid them to be on our side) And we STILL no clue why we even went to Iraq??? To find WMD?? None there! To take out a dictator (We have a lot of dictator friends in Saudi Arabia and China) Maybe because Saddam said he would kill Bush #1? Who knows!!!
Then you talking about Obama bankrupting the country? But yet he already talking about paying down the deficit! Bush ran up the tab. Moving money around like he worked for Ken Lay. (Oh yeah he did call him Kenny boy)
Please besides Lincoln freeing the slaves (Which he actually didn’t, actually the 13th amendment did that) Repugs have never done anything but lie, cheat, steal, and make rich people richer!
Oh and you talk about Obama winning by 3 or 4 percentage points?? Hummmmm in 2004 a TRUE conservative Repug won named George Bush he got: 50.7% of the popular vote where as in this election Obama got: 52.9% of the popular vote. (To 45.7 which is more then 3 or 4 percentage points) Hummmmmm.
Lets look at 2000, Bush got 47.9 percent of the popular vote, Gore got 48.4% of the popular vote. Hummmmmm. (Negative 1 percentage point)
Electoral votes:
Obama: 365
Bush 00: 271
Bush 04: 286
So yeah MATH is a good thing to learn. Or of course you can READ a bit before trying to make it look like Obama just slipped by with his win! No one is falling for the Lee Atwater / Karl Rove spin anymore.
Bush was a bad President. Obama is already looking pretty bad. Yes, if the government keeps spending money, they will bankrupt this country. In fact, the spending is so reckless, it looks like they’re going to bankrupt this country on purpose.
it’s that boy at the CPAC their next choice for president? would’nt surprise me…
man, they are desperate!
and totally out of touch with our daily reality….
Repugs were relevant until Reagan, the one ironically they drool over and worship as the –original– messiah before Obama.
What todays grown Reagan Youth dont understand is that their focus of idoltry was a –politician– who used certain framing of arguments and “beliefs” to win elections in a certain period of history.
What has happened is the wolf children of the era were brainwashed into the objectivism b.s. and have not yet grasped the idea that it was all political theatre.
due to this the Repugs center are the fringe reactionaries in American culture.
They win elections by reducing taxes and war, thats it.
The religious core of the Repugs are radical christians who
deny simple ideas such as God did not write the bible.
The core ideologists of the conservative movement would
welcome the president to fail if they see him as contrary to
their world view because they have a belief that they are supremely
right in divine work.
Apocolypse for them is not necessarily a bad thing
and inevitable anyway, they would rather see a day
of rekoning than a “socialist” or “liberal”
as president.
Check this out.
Charlie Crist will lead them out of the wilderness:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/3/4/95342/90836/279/704504
Word.
Obama sending 17,000 troops to Afghanistan after speaking of the withdrawl of troops from Iraq? Leaving Iraq, and moving to Afghanistan, great news! : (
The financial crisis began in the Clinton administration when the Democrats pushed the initiative that all Americans should own a home. If you don’t believe me search the New York times for the article titled Fannie Mae Eases Credit to Aid Mortgage Lending, dated September 30, 1999. The article outlines how the Clinton Administration put pressure on Fannie Mae to make loans to low and moderate income borrowers. Trying to pin this on the Republicans is completely without merrit. Call a spade a spade and admit that the Democrats have just as much blood on their hands as Republicans. All politicians regardless of party have lost sight of why they are in Washington and who they are representing.
“All politicians regardless of party have lost sight of why they are in Washington and who they are representing.”
Exactly.
You are right about that. The problem is that the Bush administration saw that this was becoming an issue and instead of addressing the issue when they saw it, they let it go and everything crashed.
Also the issue that crashed the housing market was not Fannie and Freddie making loans to low income people, it was an issue of 3rd party companies making loans to people without checking income at all or over inflating incomes. Fannie and Freddy never made loans to people without checking income.
Also Fannie and Freddy almost never make ARM loans or Interest only loans.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meltdown/view/
The Man –
I will agree with you about the fact that Bush should have stepped up and hit it head on earlier, but to say that it was not Fannie and Freddie is not true. Fannie and Freddie set the regulations that the “third party companies” that you refer to have to abide by. When Fannie and Freddie got pressure from the White House and Clinton’s team and they lifted these regulations that were put into place by republicans, it opened the door for greed, abuse and everything else that has landed our great nation in the pit of shame that we are in.
Instead of arguing, you should all learn how our monetary system works.
@Patriot…
You’re post only goes to prove that you have an extremely skewed view of whom the republican party is made up of. You’re entire comment is nothing more than double speak, with the hope that someone with less intelligence than yourself will think you have true wit. However, you show no ‘argument’. No, point counter point. Simply put, your post shows you are as simple minded as you believe the average member of the republican party to be.
So – I will again waste a bit of my time this afternoon and attempt the impossible and educate someone who may be un-teachable. First, Christians are well aware that the Bible wasn’t LITERALLY written by God – Christians say that the Bible is “The Word Of God”. In any case, none of that has to do with why Obama is going to bankrupt the country. Next, the republican party has many Christians as members, and so does the Democrat party… I will leap and make the assumption that you are not Christian, and perhaps are either agnostic or atheist. Either way doesn’t matter to me, but if you think that the Republican party is the only party that the religious become members of, you are sorely mistaken.
Republicans do not “Worship” Regan. We do hold him in high regard. He was not perfect, but he was the better example of a modern conservative – in relative terms of the past 30 years, that was also president. Most of his spending came from the arms race, remember we had been in a cold war with the USSR for many years before he was president. Regan got into an arms race that ultimately led to the bankruptcy and fall of the USSR.
Most Republicans (I consider myself a little Republican and a little Libertarian) do not agree with most of the leadership. But we are all forced to choose the lesser of two evils at most elections. I personally didn’t like Bush, but I voted for him – he was better than Gore or Kerry. Obama is worse than any of them in terms of what will ultimately lead to a lowering of our standard of living. I warn you now, if Obama continues the path he has stated, and started – eventually our country will not be able to sustain this level of spending and it will go Bankrupt. In between now and then, he will not stand in the way of other liberals in Congress that are even more radical. For example, cap and trade on ‘green house gasses’ – just wait will the price of everything goes up from that one thing alone. Arbitrarily raising the cost of living is all that is. National health care… right now the VAST MAJORITY of Americans have some sort of health care – some have health care they pay for and some (like my Mother) have it through the government (she is disabled due to cancer). National health care will eventually be much like what my Mom gets now, and trust me, you don’t want that. When I need care, I go to my doctor, and he provides me a prescription for the best medicine I can afford. When my Mom was diagnosed with diabetes last year, they started her on the ‘cheapest’ meds available. Those meds made her sick, so she had to go off of them and wait 2 months to get approval for something better. This has now happened 2 more times, until finally she now (1 year later) has just been put on some meds that work and she can actually take. That crap doesn’t happen with PRIVATE health care insurance. Social Security is another one, people like myself are paying in $350 per check to SSI, and have done so for many years. Yet, all signs show that it will not be sustainable and I will most likely never receive Social Security. If it couple be privatized I could save or invest or spend that money as I see fit – but that doesn’t work in the world of a liberal, that’s too much freedom.
I disagree with the liberal, socialist mindset because it is cruel. It takes away freedom by taking away our money either through taxes directly or in-directly. If liberals decide they don’t want you to smoke, they don’t make it illegal, they tax cigarettes. If they decide they don’t want you to drive an SUV, they don’t make it illegal, they tax the gas that goes into it. Then there are the direct taxes taken straight from your pay check, for your hard work – that goes to some woman on welfare with octuplets (and 6 other children). Programs like that welfare, do nothing but create a sub class of society. Help the woman yes, but don’t literally pay for everything – encourage her to get an education – help pay for that – and ultimately put her to work, and make sure she knows that the money will stop if she doesn’t not work towards getting her own job to pay for things. Of-course that sounds like I’m picking on women, I’m not – that’s just one example. The point is, that the government should not be playing Robin Hood.
Man you give Regan a lot of credit for the fall of the Soviet Union! LOL! When in reality it had nothing to do with Regan and a lot more to do with Gorbachev.
The Soviet Union’s economy posted 10 years of negative growth before Regan was even in office. Gorbachev responded to the Soviet Union’s problems by introducing perestroika, or economic restructuring, and glasnost, an element of political freedom. Perestroika was unable to reverse the collapsing Soviet economy despite Gorbachev’s best efforts. Corruption and bureaucracy was far too entrenched in the economy for legislation to make a dent in the economic crisis. Glasnost was more successful but not in the ways that Gorbachev envisioned.
Also Gorbachev’s decision to not use military force to put down revolutions in Eastern Europe further eroded the power of the Soviet Union during 1989 and 1990. The fall of the Berlin Wall and communist governments throughout the old Soviet Bloc generated demands for reforms to the Soviet government as well. Non-Russian minority groups throughout the Soviet Union agitated for independence during this period. The Baltic Republics led the way in demanding freedom from Soviet occupation.
On December 1, 1991 all non-Russian republics of the Soviet Union declared independence. On that historic Christmas Day of 1991, the long and sad history of the Soviet Union came to a final and peaceful end. (Which was after Regan was out of office)
Oh and while I am on it. You really want people to take their SSI money and try to invest it? People can’t even get their 401K’s right and with the current crash if we had private SSI accounts, just like with 401K’s most people would have lost half of their SSI savings in the last year alone. SSI will be here when you are old. As long as people stop dippin in it for wars and the such everything will be fine.
No, I want people to have as much of their own hard earned money to do with what they see fit. If I wasn’t paying so much in taxes, I could afford to pay for health care for my Mom as an example. I have a neighbor who has been scamming the social security office for years, he claims to have back problems and his wife will literally work for a couple months per year until she earns just enough to claim herself as head of household (the rest of the year she collects welfare). Both are 100% capable of working both physically and mentally – but both know all they have to do is sit back and collect a check – a check paid for by honest tax payers such as myself. I know those are 2 basically random examples, but they were just off the top of my head. For all of these liberal programs such as Welfare and Social Security and such, there are those that will scam the system to take advantage of it. If someone is honestly in need of help, I have no problem with helping that person. But as it stands now, there are many people taking advantage of these luxuries. Here’s another example, just last year a chicken plant in a town just south of where I live was raided and found 75 illegal aliens working there. Of those, it was reported that 42 of them were also receiving either welfare or food stamps, and a few of them were getting both.
Obama wants more programs like this, such as planned parenthood and the like. With more of these kind of programs, there will be more and more people taking advantage of these things. I don’t mind some of these programs existing, there is a need – but they should be better regulated, and or made smaller – not increased.
As for the question, do I really want people to take their SSI and try to invest it? YES and NO. Yes I want people to have a choice to participate in SSI or not. If not, then that person should be able to have that money to do with as that person sees fit. Myself, I would use it to invest in property to be rented out – my Grandparents do that and make far more money off rentals than they do Social Security, and property values where I live have not been affected by current conditions. And if I were invested as such, and that investment started to go south, I would be much more capable of pulling out and re-investing my money elsewhere. In almost any downturn, there is certain niche markets that are making money. As things are now, NEARLY half of my check goes out between federal and state taxes as well as SSI. I do not believe Obama when he says that he will not raise taxes on people making less than $250k. No, he might not take it directly from my check, but due to other programs – one way or another, his spending will cost me as well as you and everyone else in America. There are a lot of other taxes out there other than just the Federal withholding. Or – just his cap and trade ideas alone, my God, that is so stupid all it will due is raise the cost of running certain businesses, which will lead to their product costs going up and ultimately us (the little people) will have to foot the bill. There is no way Obama will be able to spend the money that he is going to spend while at the same time cutting the deficit in half without it costing us all in one way or another.
Again, if I didn’t make it clear before, I don’t give Republicans a pass either – I disagree with most of the ones that are the leaders of the party. It would just be nice if a few liberals could admit that their party has some bad eggs as well. On that note, no I don’t believe that PURE conservatism is the answer, but neither is pure liberalism. For the most part of this countries history we have managed to stay fairly close to the middle of those two ideologies. However, I strongly feel that Obama has shown us in this first month of office that he will push this country more to the left than it has ever been.
@Patriot…
You’re post only goes to prove that you have an extremely skewed view of whom the republican party is made up of.
- No YOUR wrong for assuming that. The Republican Party under Lincoln was the FIRST to use government as a social vacuum ala reconstruction of the South, Freedmans Bureau, and multiple other governmental organizations in process before his death.
Republicans are the party of non-intervention ala Eisenhower getting out of Korea and staying out of Vietnam even as OSS were training in the territory, the writer of the great Military Industrial Complex speech for which Reagan stomped on.
I understand the roots of conservatism before America, Burke, before liberalism, Hobbes,
YOU have a skewd interpretation because it is clear you get your information from biased simplified sources.
You’re entire comment is nothing more than double speak, with the hope that someone with less intelligence than yourself will think you have true wit. However, you show no ‘argument’. No, point counter point. Simply put, your post shows you are as simple minded as you believe the average member of the republican party to be.
- The counter point is that conservatism as it is espoused today is no longer relevant. Small government cannot exist in an era of the IMF, WTO, WB, transnationals, and huge societal issues far more complex than those which faced the original classic liberal authors, of which conservatives still cling to. The idea that individuals are supreme, and function outside of, not in concert with, society is simply incorrect.
So – I will again waste a bit of my time this afternoon and attempt the impossible and educate someone who may be un-teachable. First, Christians are well aware that the Bible wasn’t LITERALLY written by God
- Christains or evangelicals? Im not talking Greek or Russian Orthadox, Lutheran or Ethiopean, Methodist or Congregational,
Im talking the core of the — modern — conservative ideology of baptist based belief in the current active word of god.
Christians say that the Bible is “The Word Of God”. In any case, none of that has to do with why Obama is going to bankrupt the country.
- nice straw man lead in,
Next, the republican party has many Christians as members, and so does the Democrat party… I will leap and make the assumption that you are not Christian,
- Whos assuming? You judgemental simple fool? I recieved ashes at Trinity Episcopal Church on my green. I have a copy of the celebrational hymnal because I play music and enjoy some of the lyrics, use them as inspiration for me, you are ATTACKING AN ARCHITYPE.
and perhaps are either agnostic or atheist. Either way doesn’t matter to me, but if you think that the Republican party is the only party that the religious become members of, you are sorely mistaken.
- ah but I never said that, straw man again,
it is the flavor of christian religious members I was reffering to,
do not put words in others mouths.
Republicans do not “Worship” Regan.
- ok, first off spell the guys name right,
We
- hold on, “we” sounds to collective for Reagan,
do hold him in high regard. He was not perfect, but he was the better example of a modern conservative –
He was the beginnings of Bush 2. Slashing social saftey nets and taxes while spending into a deficit for which the revenue coming in could not equal, building a huge industrial military infrastructure of which had – 0 – to do with the Soviet Union, using social issues to wedge votes while doing — NOTHING — to over rule, over turn, or change any of the previous decisions, and using rhetoric over real life solutions in debate,
ARE YOU AWARE THE REAGAN GOV. PARTICIPATED TO 20% OF THE OVERALL GDP OF THE NATION, MORE THAN CARTER OR FDR??
in relative terms of the past 30 years, that was also president. Most of his spending came from the arms race, remember we had been in a cold war with the USSR for many years before he was president. Regan got into an arms race that ultimately led to the bankruptcy and fall of the USSR.
- Again, you religiously follow the lines given to you,
Gorbachevs election signaled the transition from quote on quote communsim, to a free market. Throughout the 60s and 70s the Soviet Union was on the brink, only gas exports in the mid 70s saved them. Chernobyl, concessions to the US, and overall signs of weakness drove a political wedge between Gorbachev and hardliners all while the USSR was losing in Afghanistan,
the real reason why the satellite countries began to seperate, they smelt blood,
– so dont tell me your gonna “teach” me something and then spew some meaningless radio talk show bs, it makes you look simple.
Most Republicans (I consider myself a little Republican and a little Libertarian)
- I just threw up in my mouth,
“libertarian” the new catchy cool way to say you vote Repug without having to deal with the concequences of the elected Repugs actions
do not agree with most of the leadership.
- so you speak in complete rhetoric like an anarchist, offer no value in the real world, yeah
But we are all forced to choose the lesser of two evils at most elections.
- Why didnt you vote Barr? “Libertarian”
I personally didn’t like Bush,
- I personally think your full of it and loved Busg until his approval ratings sank
but I voted for him – he was better than Gore or Kerry.
- I just spit out my coffee, are you serious?
Obama is worse than any of them in terms of what will ultimately lead to a lowering of our standard of living.
- ummmmm, oh boy, I dont know where to begin on this one,
it hurts, your literally hurting my brain,
ok, lets begin with free markets and globalization in a time of no colonies,,,,,
I warn you now, if Obama continues the path he has stated, and started – eventually our country will not be able to sustain this level of spending and it will go Bankrupt. In between now and then, he will not stand in the way of other liberals in Congress that are even more radical. For example, cap and trade on ‘green house gasses’ –
- ok, listen, the rest of your rant is too wordy.
I would simply say this,
you dont like rules? laws? government?
lets do it like this, name a regulation and compare the before and after of society,
abortion
1) before – backalley illegal coat hanger procedures which land women in emergency rooms paid for by tax dollars
2) after- the morning after pill.
environment
1) reliance on other nations resources
2) new technology created here, manufactured here, and exported from here,
welfare
1) pauperism, sick in the streets, dead in alleys in public view, one step away from any of this, the life of an American pre 1930s.
2) health insurance to keep you out of the emergency room, food stamps to feed you lower medical coasts, and prevent crime, unemployment again,
and again and again,
you –pay more– by not paying up front,
and not only that,
in this time of lent it is the right thing to do, if only people would “self legislate” as conservatives of old hoped it could rely on charity alone,
get off the kool aid, lifes not perfect.
@Patriot…
You’re post only goes to prove that you have an extremely skewed view of whom the republican party is made up of.
- No YOUR wrong for assuming that. The Republican Party under Lincoln was the FIRST to use government as a social vacuum ala reconstruction of the South, Freedmans Bureau, and multiple other governmental organizations in process before his death.
Republicans are the party of non-intervention ala Eisenhower getting out of Korea and staying out of Vietnam even as OSS were training in the territory, the writer of the great Military Industrial Complex speech for which Reagan stomped on.
I understand the roots of conservatism before America, Burke, before liberalism, Hobbes,
YOU have a skewd interpretation because it is clear you get your information from biased simplified sources.
You’re entire comment is nothing more than double speak, with the hope that someone with less intelligence than yourself will think you have true wit. However, you show no ‘argument’. No, point counter point. Simply put, your post shows you are as simple minded as you believe the average member of the republican party to be.
- The counter point is that conservatism as it is espoused today is no longer relevant. Small government cannot exist in an era of the IMF, WTO, WB, transnationals, and huge societal issues far more complex than those which faced the original classic liberal authors, of which conservatives still cling to. The idea that individuals are supreme, and function outside of, not in concert with, society is simply incorrect.
So – I will again waste a bit of my time this afternoon and attempt the impossible and educate someone who may be un-teachable. First, Christians are well aware that the Bible wasn’t LITERALLY written by God
- Christains or evangelicals? Im not talking Greek or Russian Orthadox, Lutheran or Ethiopean, Methodist or Congregational,
Im talking the core of the — modern — conservative ideology of baptist based belief in the current active word of god.
Christians say that the Bible is “The Word Of God”. In any case, none of that has to do with why Obama is going to bankrupt the country.
- nice straw man lead in,
Next, the republican party has many Christians as members, and so does the Democrat party… I will leap and make the assumption that you are not Christian,
- Whos assuming? You judgemental simple fool? I recieved ashes at Trinity Episcopal Church on my green. I have a copy of the celebrational hymnal because I play music and enjoy some of the lyrics, use them as inspiration for me, you are ATTACKING AN ARCHITYPE.
and perhaps are either agnostic or atheist. Either way doesn’t matter to me, but if you think that the Republican party is the only party that the religious become members of, you are sorely mistaken.
- ah but I never said that, straw man again,
it is the flavor of christian religious members I was reffering to,
do not put words in others mouths.
Republicans do not “Worship” Regan.
- ok, first off spell the guys name right,
We
- hold on, “we” sounds to collective for Reagan,
do hold him in high regard. He was not perfect, but he was the better example of a modern conservative –
He was the beginnings of Bush 2. Slashing social saftey nets and taxes while spending into a deficit for which the revenue coming in could not equal, building a huge industrial military infrastructure of which had – 0 – to do with the Soviet Union, using social issues to wedge votes while doing — NOTHING — to over rule, over turn, or change any of the previous decisions, and using rhetoric over real life solutions in debate,
ARE YOU AWARE THE REAGAN GOV. PARTICIPATED TO 20% OF THE OVERALL GDP OF THE NATION, MORE THAN CARTER OR FDR??
in relative terms of the past 30 years, that was also president. Most of his spending came from the arms race, remember we had been in a cold war with the USSR for many years before he was president. Regan got into an arms race that ultimately led to the bankruptcy and fall of the USSR.
- Again, you religiously follow the lines given to you,
Gorbachevs election signaled the transition from quote on quote communsim, to a free market. Throughout the 60s and 70s the Soviet Union was on the brink, only gas exports in the mid 70s saved them. Chernobyl, concessions to the US, and overall signs of weakness drove a political wedge between Gorbachev and hardliners all while the USSR was losing in Afghanistan,
the real reason why the satellite countries began to seperate, they smelt blood,
– so dont tell me your gonna “teach” me something and then spew some meaningless radio talk show bs, it makes you look simple.
Most Republicans (I consider myself a little Republican and a little Libertarian)
- I just threw up in my mouth,
“libertarian” the new catchy cool way to say you vote Repug without having to deal with the concequences of the elected Repugs actions
do not agree with most of the leadership.
- so you speak in complete rhetoric like an anarchist, offer no value in the real world, yeah
But we are all forced to choose the lesser of two evils at most elections.
- Why didnt you vote Barr? “Libertarian”
I personally didn’t like Bush,
- I personally think your full of it and loved Busg until his approval ratings sank
but I voted for him – he was better than Gore or Kerry.
- I just spit out my coffee, are you serious?
Obama is worse than any of them in terms of what will ultimately lead to a lowering of our standard of living.
- ummmmm, oh boy, I dont know where to begin on this one,
it hurts, your literally hurting my brain,
ok, lets begin with free markets and globalization in a time of no colonies,,,,,
I warn you now, if Obama continues the path he has stated, and started – eventually our country will not be able to sustain this level of spending and it will go Bankrupt. In between now and then, he will not stand in the way of other liberals in Congress that are even more radical. For example, cap and trade on ‘green house gasses’ –
- ok, listen, the rest of your rant is too wordy.
I would simply say this,
you dont like rules? laws? government?
lets do it like this, name a regulation and compare the before and after of society,
abortion
1) before – backalley illegal coat hanger procedures which land women in emergency rooms paid for by tax dollars
2) after- the morning after pill.
environment
1) reliance on other nations resources
2) new technology created here, manufactured here, and exported from here,
welfare
1) pauperism, sick in the streets, dead in alleys in public view, one step away from any of this, the life of an American pre 1930s.
2) health insurance to keep you out of the emergency room, food stamps to feed you lower medical coasts, and prevent crime, unemployment again,
and again and again,
you –pay more– by not paying up front,
and not only that,
in this time of lent it is the right thing to do, if only people would “self legislate” as conservatives of old hoped it could rely on charity alone,
get off the kool aid, lifes not perfect.
I can’t tell what you’re trying to argue for. If your mother is unhappy with government provided healthcare, why doesn’t she go and get private health coverage? Or at least get supplemental coverage in order to get access to the better meds. And if she can’t afford better coverage, then well, does she really deserve to get better than the cheapest meds on my tax dollars? After all, she’s just a burden to me and other tax payers, especially since she’s had a history of cancer or diabetes. No sane private insurer would cover her, so why should the government (and my tax dollars) provide medication for a lost cause like your mother?
because your tax dollars already do moron, as the lady, or man, or child, or elderly, individual who is not covered abuses the emergency room, paid for by your taxes,
with costly unecessary tests run due to lack of medical file, no understanding of allergies or familial conditions, and diagnosed incorrectly,
only to return again worse, paid for again by your tax dollars,
but this time after losing their job due to call outs and now recieving
food stamps,
paid for by you,
idiot.
Perhaps we should start screening people and weeding out those who carry the gene to potentially develop cancer or other diseases that will require health care later in life. Then we could eliminate health care all together! Sure hope you don’t carry any of those genes.
Sorry – I did not make my point clear. She is DISABLED, she can not work, and can barely walk (she is mostly in a wheel chair) – due to cancer, and yes other health problem that were complications from that cancer and later weight gain due to the steroids that she was put on during chemo and radiation treatments, and other complications due to poor medication. Does she deserve better? Emotionally, since she’s my Mother obviously I say yes – but logically, I say no because she is on the tax payers dime… and that’s my point. Once we are all in the same boat (public funded health care – or however you want to put it) we will all have to put up with the same kind of care she has went through.
As for what she has been through I only am scratching the surface for lack of time. Her medical records in print form are a stack of papers about a foot and a half high. I’m not trying to make excuses for her situation, nor am I trying to elicit compassion for her plight. My point is simply that the government funded health care that she is getting sucks (yes it’s better than nothing – but I don’t think most of us would want it) and I wouldn’t wish for anyone to have to suffer as she has in waiting for medication, and in some cases surgery and such. I firmly believe (yes I hope I’m wrong) that if Obama pushes through some sort of government health care, that eventually we will all have such pitiful coverage to look forward too. In your own words… “why should the government (and my tax dollars) provide medication for a lost cause like your mother?” … I come back with, if my tax dollars pay for your health care, why should you be allowed to do things such as smoke, over eat, jump out of a plane, play sports – or basically anything that I or more to the point, society, ultimately deems as being an unnecessary activity. Which brings me back full circle to my original point that IMHO liberalism is cruel. In my first example to that end, I said liberalism is cruel because of how it takes money from my pocket (and others who work like me)… and gives that money to others that may or may not be scamming the system. Here I’m illustrating another way in-which liberalism is cruel, in that what can start out as a good intention (free health care for everyone) can ultimately lead to a severe removal of our freedoms (freedom to treat our own bodies as good or as bad as we see fit).
And – no I realize there are no ‘absolute’ answers. If you read my posts here, you’ll see that in at least 1, but I believe 2 posts now, I have stated that pure capitalism isn’t the answer any more than pure liberalism. There does need to be a balance, and my point to that end is that I feel Obama has just thrown that balance out the window with the policies that he says he wants to get passed. Again, I see no liberals willing to admit that liberalism is anything but perfect… it appears from most of the blogs I read, that you people believe that liberalism can never be wrong. While at the same time, accusing conservatives of the same mentality.
As to the crack from Patriot about Libertarian being… “the new catchy cool way to say you vote Repug without having to deal with the consequences” – all I can say is you’re wrong. There are parts of the republican parties ‘creed’ (if you will) that I believe in, and parts from the Libertarian movement – most of what I believe in come from those two parties, and yes a bit of what Democrats believe in, I agree with, just not as much as the other two. So, of the three, I vote Republican because voting the Libertarian ticket is (IMHO) throwing away a vote – and I don’t always vote republican. For example, I did vote for Clinton in his second term (I was too young to vote in his first) – and sorry, I just never liked Gore, I just think he’s an idiot – so’s Bush, but when the choice was between two dim wits, I chose the one that wasn’t going to preach too me about global warming at every press conference. Sorry – again, that’s just my opinion of him. Also, Patriot, you accused me of being judgemental as to your religion or possible lack thereof. Well, perhaps I’m taking that wrong, but too me, judgemental would mean that I am implying some sort of inferiority – and that was not my intent, as I stated immediately thereafter, it doesn’t matter to me, I felt the religious component is unimportant, in the context of the current conversation here.
You know what would be great? If both groups would stop playing the blame game and actually take the future of our country into consideration. Dems and Repubs are BOTH to blame, as there are numerous instances of both of them overspending and making bad financial decisions. Instead of pointing the finger, both groups need to think about what is best for our country.
In lean times, we need to focus less on bailouts and let the economy sort itself out. Anyone with a small amount of economic understanding knows that it will find its own balance. New markets will arise from the ashes of failed ones, people will find jobs, and soon we will be humming along. Its happened before, it’ll happen again.
AMEN! Well said!
Everyone complains about how the Reps and Dems have abused their taxing power yet you keep voting for them. Why is that? I’m reading posts by many I’m guessing voted for McCain even after his party doubled the size of our government. How do you reconcile this behavior? Every administration that has placed troops in a foreign country since WWII has left them there yet many believe Obama is going to remove our troops from Iraq. Any fool can look at the history books and tell that his isn’t going to do this.
Why do you people have such terrible memories when it comes to politics? So-called ‘conservatives’ will scream all day long when a Democrat increases spending but go strangely quiet when one of their own commits the same infraction. Democrats complain that Republicans turned America into another empire yet are oddly lacking in examples of removing our troops from foreign soil. Despite all of this, you keep voting for them.
If you want to change someone’s behavior, stop rewarding it. In a case such as this, the only way to stop rewarding them is to stop voting for them. If you really consider yourself fiscally conservative and don’t like the direction our national debt and deficits are headed, vote for Libertarians. If you really believe we should remove our troops from foreign lands, *especially* those we’re not at war with, vote for Libertarians. Will the Libertarians win? They don’t have to. The moment Reps and Dems realize they need to adopt these strategies to win elections, they will. This is the objective. Until then, they don’t deserve to be rewarded with my vote.
Ah you Liberal!! Ann Coulter was right on target. Liberalism “is” a deadly disease. But never fear. Not too many people will find out about it because in 1 year; 8 months; 3 days, the Mid-Term elections will put you out of your misery. And then, you won’t have to admit you even know Nancy Pelosi.
You know what? I am ashamed to be an American sometimes. The two-party system that we have has and will never work. Look at the
situation that we are in right now. It’s not going to get any better when the two ruling parties and their cohorts are busy arguing
about whose fault everything is. I am probably the most bleeding-heart liberal you would ever meet, and I definitely have taken my
fair share of aggression out on conservatives and blamed them for ruining this country. That’s when I thought about it. We are
all Americans. That is something that no bank or auto company that is too big to fail can take away from us. I think, and this is
only an opinion, that we drastically need to band together and forget party lines. We can keep our past behind us and, as grim as
it seems, take what the future has to offer our great nation. Rebuilding is going to take more than a party’s agenda to get the
proverbial ball rolling. ‘One nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.’ Peace…if anyone wants to
straggle on over to http://jacksmokestack.wordpress.com, there is plenty of controversial stuff to talk about. I’d love to
debate some of the issues that I have on a pedestal on my weblog. Ciao…
The world will keep becoming a liberal place. Remember the time interracial marriages were banned? The time when “witches” were burned?
So conservatism will alway exist – they will be the people who want to preserve the status quo, to not change. But the direction we’re headed is clear.
Bon voyage!
The Dems and irresponsible idiots buying shit they couldn’t afford here in the US caused the recession we’re diving into. Oboma just going to make it worse now, just watch. We’ll see you have a job in the next 2 months..
Great.
Now Obama will annouce that the increase in low paying jobs, like Asst Night Manager at Burger King, are a victory in the war against the recession/depression.
Just like Clinton did. Then Clinton signed NAFTA, and shitloads of companies moved south of the border to open shop.
I’d say the last 12 to 16 years has been a financial disaster, and the real estate bust is just as bad, if not worse, than the dot com bust.
Fuck it, wears my bottle….